Finding Your Perfect Match: The 10 Out of 10 Client-Coach Relationship

Episode Transcript

Julianna: Welcome to the Daring to Succeed podcast. Today, I’m joined by Gabrielle Ferguson, an executive coach and leadership strategist with 10 plus years in HR and talent development. Gabs, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast today. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. really interesting topic today. So Gavs and I were talking about all the different things we wanted to share with you. And we kind of landed on the topic of a 10 out of 10 client, which might sound a little weird that we’re like out here talking about the perfect person that we want to work with. But if you bear with us, it’s kind of more about the combined success of the coachee and the coach. And I know, Gabs, you kind of have a lot of thoughts on that. Do you want to kind of jump in and blow that out a little bit on why we think this is such an important topic?

Gabs: Absolutely. And I think, yeah, it was so nice, our conversation. There were so many directions that we took, but this is one that I don’t think is spoken about enough from either perspective as the coach or as the coachee. And so a 10 out of 10 client relationship for me is incredibly important and I guess we’ll define what we mean by that as well but it’s important because the number one thing that makes a successful coaching engagement coaching relationship is rapport is the number one thing and it’s what I would recommend to anybody if you are a trained certified coach as we are because FYI, many are not, but if you are a trained, you know, no shade, but it’s true, if you are a trained certified coach, at the end of your coaching program, you get the certificate and you are trained to help anybody. you’ve got a fundamental and foundational level of skills, hopefully there’s some natural talent in there as well and you have a range of tools to help people with their issues and help people progress and move forward and I know from our couple of conversations now how much you know that that lights us up inside and how much we enjoy it and so one of the hardest things you can do I think as a coach working coach in business is choose. Choose. You have to choose a specialty and some people call that a niche. You have to choose who you’re going to work with and why. And I don’t know about you, Julianna, but I found that choice and that concept of choosing one of the hardest things about starting my business for myself because you know, the kind of person I am. I want to help everyone and I’m interested in loads of different things and lots of different kinds of challenges and different kinds of people and it’s difficult because you are trying to help anybody but you do have to choose particularly when you’re starting off so you can build your business and build your expertise and reputation in one area and I think that’s really important. And so linking that with this notion of, I think we need to patent it, to be honest, there’s 10 out of 10 clients, you know, we need to get the intellectual property on that. Building rapport is really important. You could have discovery calls where you get to test out the coach and ask them questions and share about your challenge with 50 different coaches that are all trained to help you. but the difference maker is one probably a little bit of their style and their ethos and their approach but two is who do I feel comfortable with to really go there and really share and open up. My clients and I’m sure yours do they they’re trusting me and they’re letting me into their world They’re opening up about their past, about their vulnerabilities, about their insecurities, which is crucial for us to do the work together that we need to do. But the level of rapport and trust has to be there. People have to feel understood. And for me, that’s what makes a 10 out of 10 client. It’s that give and take. You’re trusting me and we’ve got the rapport and I’m confident my expertise and skills are exactly what you need. So that 10 out of 10 is kind of that perfect match in my opinion.

Julianna: Yeah, there’s a few things that you mentioned there that I want to kind of pop back on. One is that concept of expertise and training where definitely it helps so much having a coach who’s fully trained because right now in the world anybody can call themselves a coach. There is whether you’re certified or not, there’s not really any sort of, it’s not like a doctor, right, where you need to be registered.

Gabs: There isn’t still, I think, one overarching accrediting body globally or even within countries, which I’m hoping that will change at some point to really legitimize what we do. the moment you have quite a few different certifying bodies that offer programs but it is frustrating when you’ve taken the time and the investment to get certified by a rigorous accrediting body and someone else can call themselves the same title as you and they did a 10-minute LinkedIn learning or whatever. It can be frustrating.

Julianna: And I think the type of training and experience also matters depending on like what you’re looking for in a coach. So I haven’t actually completed my formal certification yet, but I have 20 years of experience coaching people in a corporate environment, right, where those are kind of things to look for where the certification process is, as Gabs mentioned, quite intensive both in time and money. And some of it is you have to pass certain markers to be able to pass that certification. So especially for someone like me who’s newer as a coach outside of corporate may not have that immediately. But you can look for other things like what is their work experience? What industries have they worked with? Who else have they actually helped? reach goals, maybe you ask for like, hey, can I talk to somebody who has actually been helped by you? Because then you can kind of gauge how real is this experience? Is this a person who really can deliver on the thing that I need them to help me with? Or is this just another influencer out there who’s trying to kind of get out there and sell all this stuff. Because we know right now the world is pretty much bombarded by everyone trying to do their side hustle, which is understandable. But if your career is on the line, you need to do yourself the justice of making sure that the person that you’re hiring to help you is the right person for you and has the qualifications that you’re comfortable with?

Gabs: I think it’s doing a due diligence, isn’t it? The way that you would when you’re hiring a lawyer or someone to work on your car. You’re doing your due diligence and that’s why I think we’ve spoken about this previously. I would say so much of my business still, nearly three years down the line, it’s referrals. It’s referrals and word of mouth from people, which I think says something to the experience that people have had. No ego, but people won’t say, have a chat with Gabs and send my email address if they weren’t confident to vouch for you. and that goes a long way to building that trust as well because again, you said it really well, we’re in an age on the internet and social media, anybody can say anything. How do you know the testimonials aren’t made up and they just have crafted the perfect testimonial and put a couple of different random names on them. So what you suggested, I actually offer that to people as well where I don’t know them so well. If it hasn’t come from a referral, I do offer people the chance to have a chat with and I give them two or three different clients that I’m happy for you to reach out to them. And those past clients have said to me, happy to have a conversation with anybody considering It is really about that trust because coaching can get quite, I’m going to use the word intimate, in a non-sexy way, but real intimacy is opening up, sharing, maybe revealing things that you haven’t necessarily said out loud before. you maybe wouldn’t talk to your friends and family about for many reasons. And so you want to be sure that this is the right person to embark on this journey with. And that’s why that rapport building, due diligence and that 10 out of 10 magic sprinkling on top, I think it paves the way for the ultimate transformations.

Julianna: And I think as you’re talking about that, it’s almost taking it a level beyond just trust because obviously that needs to be there but it’s finding the counterpart that gives you what you need that you’re not getting from your friends and family right where A lot of the clients that are attracted to working with me like that I’m able to give them a completely non-biased opinion on their situation. So a lot of the work is because I’m more on the strategic execution where I know a lot of coaches work with uncovering those internal blockers, figuring out why what’s blocking themselves from moving forwards. But then there are those other people who are like, I can handle that myself, but I need someone to help me figure out how do I navigate this? Or how do I make the right decision when I’ve got partners and friends and co-workers and bosses all telling me different things that I should or air quotes should or shouldn’t be doing for my career right now. How do I cut through all that noise to make the right decision for me? Right. And having whether it’s that that you need or someone that you can trust to open up and be very vulnerable about what’s going on with you or whatever it is. finding that 10 out of 10 coach on the flip side is also really critical that you’re finding someone who can offer you the exact type of support that is missing right now that’s keeping you from reaching those goals that you’ve got.

Gabs: Such a good point. Such a good point. And linking that to the niche that we just discussed, you know, picking who you’re going to work with, what kind of person, not just personality but situation, challenges, circumstances and choosing that niche is really important and most coaches draw on a mixture of their training and their expertise So we’ve both worked in corporate life, you say 20 years, which I’m not sure I believe, to be honest, 20 years. You look far too young to have worked in that. I’ve got a green filter on the recording. You must have started when you were six, Julianna. Mine is over a decade. So it’s 30 years between us, 30 years of corporate experience between us. And the way that I’m trying to position myself now and, you know, the copy on my website is really honing in on, I’ve been on both sides of the table. That’s how I phrased it, because I hope that that makes sense to people. I’ve been the HR talent development leader in-house, running talent processes, putting people on leadership programs, looking at internal mobility, assessing leaders in-house. Yeah. And I’ve been a senior leader myself, working up those chains, trying to climb those ladders, right? Meeting those blockers and barriers. And I have both of that experience on both sides of the table. Plus then, you know, a master’s in HR and my training as a coach and all the other things. And I weave all of that together. And that’s why I’ve created the one-on-one program that I have, because from, from lifting from all of those experiences, I know what it takes. I understand the imposter syndrome and the people pleasing and the, you know, being pulled in a million different directions because I’ve had those experiences. That, that’s the combination of, so you’ve got your own combination. So when looking for the right coach for you, what’s the combination that you need? Yes. and I think it’s getting really clear on that, and then going into those discovery calls to, you know, that’s what they’re for. They’re there to meet the coach, try them out, ask your questions, but getting really clear on where do I think my issues are, what combination do I need, and more importantly, I don’t think we’ve said this yet, the combination that I have is not for everyone.

Julianna: No, and it’s the same for me. And that’s okay. the type of person that I can help versus the type of person that GABs can help, I think, even though to the point that you’ve made about we could hypothetically, just based on our training, based on our experience, we have the tool set we need to help anyone. But it’s that, I’ll call it an accelerant of that magic combination of our training, our expertise, our on-the-job experience, that makes all of us coaches a little bit different and fits in a little bit differently with all the people out there looking for a coach. And I know, Gabs, we’ve talked about how we both have a system whereby if we are approached by someone who isn’t a 10 out of 10 client for us, we would rather refer them to someone who we think is at minimum, we’ll say an 8 out of 10 match. Somebody who’s a much closer match so that they can be successful together than take on someone who we aren’t confident are going to benefit from that unique flavor of coaching that we have to offer. It’s such a hard thing for us, too, because remember, in Every client that we don’t sign is an impact to the financial success of the business, but it is so much more important for us, especially because people who are drawn to coaching are, as you’ve hinted at, people who want to help the world. it’s important that we’re helping the right fit of persons so that we can guarantee the best results for them, rather than just taking on everyone. Because if that relationship wasn’t really set up for success in the first place for multiple reasons, the coachee is not going to get the results they want. We’re going to be miserable because we’re not seeing them successful. Nobody’s happy.

Gabs: It’s like recruiting. When you’ve been in this recruitment situation and you have the choice between just hiring someone or maybe going back out to recruit, I advise people sometimes on a monthly basis the good fit that you’re excited about. Nine times out of ten, it doesn’t end well on either side. Nine times out of ten. And I think it takes a lot of strength, courage, patience, and integrity to turn down a paying client when you work for yourself. Now, when you’re a solopreneur and every penny, I know you’re in dollars, but every penny matters, you know. It does take a lot of integrity, but I think we are on the same page and I want to build a healthy business, but a business that is built on my values and a business where my reputation is bulletproof because I’ve made decisions I can really stand behind. and ultimately I want to do the right thing for the person in front of me. Can I actually tell you it’s like slightly different but you know a little sideline story where I had a discovery call and the person’s situation and challenges was right in my sweet spot. You know really really good really good fit on that part. but the actual individual was very closed and was answering the question as briefly as possible with just enough information to answer the question, wasn’t being expansive, was Yeah, it was tricky, let’s just say that. I’m trying to be very tactful, which is not my strong suit, but I’ll be as tactful as I can. Very tricky to get the information that I need for a successful discovery call. It was clear to me the work-related challenges had roots in personal, more personal things and this is not the first work environment where this individual had experienced those challenges. This was a little bit of a pattern and as coaches we love patterns because they tell us so much and at the end of the discovery call I felt almost a little bit, a little bit sad because I thought I can help you but I’m not 100% sure that you want to be helped. I know that that 10 out of 10 magic isn’t there. I know that that rapport isn’t there based on how closed this individual was. And they asked me, I know we’ve only spoken for 30 minutes, but based on what I’ve told you, do you feel that you can help me? And I was really honest and I said, yeah, I can help, but will you allow me to help? Will you let me in and out? enough to allow me to come in and help and that’s where the issue is. The issue isn’t with the challenges. I’ve got loads of tools to help with that but that’s what’s missing from my perspective and they thanked me for my honesty and said that they understood and I never heard from them again. So you know I think that 10 out of 10 you know, concept that we’re discussing, it is really important and I think it can also be a wake-up call for people. How you think you’re coming across isn’t always how you’re coming across. You know, there can be messages lost in translation there.

Julianna: Yeah and I’m just, I love that story because it kind of touches on something that I think is um maybe a little bit heartbreaking for a lot of us as coaches where there are a lot of people seeking help but we can very quickly assess whether the person is actually ready for the transformation that that they’re looking for right the the transformation that’s needed to get them to those goals that have been just a little bit out of reach for so long where I don’t think I’ve had a discovery call like that, but I have had initial discussions with a lot of people who don’t quite know what the help is that they need, which is a tricky situation, right? Because we can offer so many possible options for how we can help you get there. But I think if you’re not even sure what it is that is the problem or the type of support you need at a very fundamental level, it’s going to be challenging for you to find someone who can help you. Going back to your car situation, if you don’t even know what you need a technician to do for your car, assessing the person is going to be difficult. And again, it’s tricky because a flat tire is obvious. A car not starting is obvious. But if there’s just a rattling noise, which I’ve had a car that would just rattle, trying to figure out who can help you unrattle the car is going to be really, really challenging. where it’s almost like you need to take that leap and invest in some initial coaching with somebody who you can trust to just do the diagnosis. Just to find out what is that blocker. Maybe that’s not the coach who’s going to be able to help you, but to find out what is it that’s holding you back. And then deciding from there, are you ready to make that change? Do you agree with the coach? Because maybe you don’t. And if you do agree, then kind of going back to explore, what do I need to resolve that? I think back to when I was in corporate and was looking for a coach for myself, it was very clear for me what I needed. I needed somebody who had experience with workplace dynamics at the executive level and who could help me come into my own leadership style without telling me, oh, this is what you should do, this is what you should do, based on some sort of magical checklist of things. or suggest things that were uncomfortable for me, where I know other people who are like, no, I want a coach who is going to push me outside of my comfort zone. I need someone to make me uncomfortable. I know that’s what I need for my growth. So finding that right match again is just so critical. But if you don’t know what you need, You’re just going to be spending a lot of your own personal time talking to a bunch of coaches who are going to maybe incessantly follow up with you because we’re so diligent. And you’re not really going to get very far, right? Just as we as coaches need to understand who’s the type of person that we can help the best. How can we work with them so that they can be successful? if you’re out there looking for a coach it’s so important to know what you need.

Gabs: Can I add something? Of course. Another challenge I guess or dynamic to this because everything you said is so spot on and to really know what you need takes a level of But we’re moving away from the car analogy now because with cars, I don’t know what’s going on in there. I just sync my music to the Bluetooth and drive, you know, whatever. It takes a level of self-awareness and insight. And I have also had a few conversations in the past where people are unaware of how interlinked things can be. So I’ve got a work issue and I need help with this work-related challenge and if I ask a question about, you know, what’s your family situation or what was it like, you know, at school or how did you grow up? What does that have to do with it? This is a work-related issue. I’m like, oh, some juicy resistance. Bring it on. We found one. We found it and I think there is a I think that’s the whole concept of personal development and personal growth, which everybody’s had varying levels of exposure to, varying levels of appetite to do it. There’s nothing easy about personal growth. It’s very challenging and very uncomfortable. I have had a few conversations where I’ve had to break that down and explain this um, challenge or issue that you’re facing might be showing up primarily at work, but the roots of that challenge probably come from other areas, especially if it’s a bit of a pattern. And it’s, I always say coaching is really good for something, um, to almost attack something that has been tripping you up for some time. You know, I speak with people all the time where their people pleasing trips them up, their lack of boundaries trips them up, gets them into problems, makes life more difficult, makes them feel frustrated, resentful. I’m like, that’s great, but the lack of boundaries is probably not absolutely unique to the hours of nine to five when you’re working your corporate job. Probably going to show up in some other areas because we are one person all the time. And we’ve been encouraged, I think, I know we’re getting deep now but society-wise and all these things to think of ourselves as I’ve got the work version of me and the personal version of me and the family version of me and the gym version of me when actually you are always one person. And sometimes the transformation comes from actually reintegrating those pieces and understanding they are interlinked. So for me to really help you beyond the surface level, so I operate at a level of depth, you know, we might need the submarine for the transformation I like to take people on, because the surface level stuff, you can just Google that nowadays, or get chat GPT to give you a surface level answer. But the real transformation is when you need someone like me, like us, that has the physical experience, often from varying sides of the table, plus the training, plus the credentials that can bring that all together. That’s when you get the real depth of transformation, in my opinion.

Julianna: Yeah, and I maybe want to speak to the people out there who are still listening, but are wondering, okay, well, what does this mean for me if I either don’t feel ready to do that deep work or not quite ready to believe it, that all these things are interconnected, but know that something needs to change, where you mentioned being able to Google solutions and things like that, and that could be your first step towards growth, right? Maybe that first step is trying out the tactics without doing that, we’ll call it scary, work of introspection and the deep exploration of self to see if maybe, is it a technical skill that you are missing or a key piece of information that you don’t have? If that resolves it, well then, fantastic. right? You’ve made your progress. But if that doesn’t, I think that’s a good indication that the reason you’re not reaching your goals, the reason that you’re not getting past a certain point in your career, is not a technical one. And that for a lot of people I think can be very difficult to fully accept, even if you say you understand it, because sometimes as well, especially depending on the culture you come from, we’re taught that if you just do these things, if you get these degrees, if you get these number of experiences, if you demonstrate these skill sets, you will be successful. But as we know, having been in corporate for so long, that is fantasy, right? It’s not really how the world works, even though we say it is. And there’s always something else. For me, a lot of the times it comes down to interpersonal relationships that you need to know how to manage what is actually happening in the workplace to be able to get past those blockers and coming back to what we’ve been saying the entire time. a lot of that takes internal work. And maybe that’s internal work you do on your own with a coach who can help you move forward, right? Because I know a lot of my clients are just, they’re either so private or they are so introverted that they do a lot of that deep work themselves and come back to me and say, hey, sorry, I haven’t spoken to you in two weeks, but here’s the introspection I’ve done and here’s the conclusion I’ve come to, what do I do with this? Versus maybe you need someone to guide you through that process, like Gabs can, to kind of be your sherpa through the process and figure out what is that key thing that needs to be unraveled so that I can integrate myself, like Gab said, and become a better version of myself so I can get to those goals?

Gabs: Oh, I’m just, yeah, taking notes of what, you know, you’re here and what you’re saying, and yeah, that success measure checklist that we were all sold as children, and I know some of this is cultural absolutely as well, and I straddle two cultures, British and Caribbean, Those checklists are different across both cultures and I think the checklists are outdated. The rules of the game have changed. Some of those checklists were created by parents in the 40s, 50s, 60s. and things have changed and evolved so much that what we thought what we all thought what I thought in my you know I started working at 15 what I thought would equal success gets you to a certain point but there are consequences and it doesn’t get you to where you really want to go necessarily and that that’s often where people want our help is it’s such a cliche I’m cringing even saying it out loud but you know what got me here won’t take me there you know it’s an old chestnut for a reason but but it is true what got me to being a really good manager is not what will get me to being a really good leader or a really good c-suite or really good business owner things evolve we evolve as people we’re supposed to and yet some of those patterns are really outdated and often you do need a hand to look at that with a fresh pair of eyes and some external perspective can be really helpful and really healthy you know because we’re all in our own heads all the time so the way that we see the world is pretty similar all the time and it can take you know I’m sure we’ve both experienced that one question that me as an external person that’s not in your head and not in your friend circle and not in your family can ask you for the light bulb to go on. So you mentioned to anyone listening if you’re still listening at this point you know thanks for sticking with us um can I offer a couple of maybe reflection questions to the audience if you are still with us and thinking I still don’t know if I need a coach or not here’s here but i have but i have a thing you know i have this i have this challenge i’ve got this issue i’ve got this problem i’ve got this thing that trips me up here’s where i would start and i would take i don’t know 20 minutes 30 minutes quietly on your own with no distractions and really jot down you know some notes on these maybe two or three questions and see what the outcome is be how long really has this issue been hanging around and sometimes that can be a wake-up call when you subtract that number from your age and you realize it’s actually quite a bit longer than you think and you know really cast your mind back when did this start. The second one a huge one when I say okay this issue let’s say it’s people pleasing or procrastination whatever it is what is it really costing you what does that issue cost you and again go beyond the surface level because you know it’s a bit frustrating or it’s holding me back okay great what’s what’s the next level down is it impacting your relationships your finances How you think or feel about yourself, you know, does it impact your hopes for the future? Does it mean that you talk yourself out of doing different things? What is it really costing you? And then the third one, which I think is the best one, if I have to have a favorite, is what happens if you do nothing? cast your mind forward 12 months down the line, five years down the line, 10 years down the line. If you do nothing about this issue, get no help, read no books, no chat GPT. If you do absolutely nothing about this and it continues, what happens to your life? What happens to you? And I would hope that maybe the outcomes of those three questions can give you a sense of whether you’re ready to get a hand with it and get some help with it to change and speed, like you said it, we as coaches can act as an accelerator. What might take you 25 years of on again, off again, reflection and trial and error, maybe we can cut that down to, I don’t know, three months, eight sessions, because you’re benefiting from us as that external perspective plus our expertise, plus our training. Let’s see if we can speed that up for you and cut down that number. So if you’re in that situation, that’s where I would start.

Julianna: Yeah, and I would offer maybe three different questions to kind of take that from a different angle of, are you even ready for Which I think is similar, but it’s slightly different where maybe you need a coach, but are you in a position where you’re ready? And I would say the first question, because I actually come across this quite a bit in my initial conversations with people who are looking for a coach, is are you at the point where you’re willing to accept a different perspective than your own? Because I have to say, I have a lot of people who are coming to me who I think are looking for someone with experience to validate their frustration. But that’s it. And I’m not saying the validation of frustration isn’t important because that’s part of the rapport, that trust of, yes, your situation is not good, but if you’re not willing to accept that there’s something, a different way to look at your situation, and the second question of, are you willing to try something different to get out of your situation, if those aren’t options for you right now, if you’re in a spot where you just need only validation, Honestly, you’re not ready and no amount of money that you throw at this problem, whether it’s through a coach, whether it’s through training, it’s not going to help you. Just don’t spend the money. And then the third question is, are you ready to make this a priority? because I’ve had that as well where a lot of people are like, yes, something needs to change. I can see that if I don’t make a change, I’m going to be stuck here in this job I hate forever. But are you ready both internally and from a logistical perspective to make this a priority? Because if you’ve got a lot going on with your family right now, or if your finances aren’t in a situation where you can afford this or a whole host of other totally legitimate reasons for why your career isn’t your priority in this exact moment. Again, you’re not going to find success because you’re not fully there, right? Because you’re always going to be thinking about something else. And it’s maybe not the right time right now but at some point you will be ready and that’s a much better time to do this exploration when you can be all in because otherwise you’re going to try a few things and then you’re going to get discouraged and then oftentimes what I’ve seen is people give up on the concept of coaching or the concept of finding help because it wasn’t the right time for them anyway. they get discouraged and the next time they feel they might be ready, instead of doing that assessment to say, hey, am I ready? Is this the right time? It’s, oh, well, I’ve tried this before. It didn’t work. So I’m doomed.

Gabs: And I would say such good questions. I mean, I’ve written those down. All of that feeds into, again, in my opinion, part of that 10 out of 10 magic. It’s the right fit with the right person at the right time. When you’ve either got enough leverage to change, you’re in enough pain. I don’t mean that physically, but there’s enough, you know, it’s costing you enough that you’re like, I’m ready to tackle this now. Um, but also I’m ready to give it the time and attention that it deserves. I’m ready to do the reflection.

Julianna: That’s so important because maybe it’s okay for your career not to be a priority right now. This is coming from two career coaches. Maybe this isn’t the right time and that’s okay. You’re allowed to have shifting priorities and for other things to take priority at different times. It doesn’t mean that your career is not important, but when it does become that time for it to be the most important thing or one of the most important things for you to focus on, finding that right match is going to make such a big difference compared to finding someone who is making promises but you know you’ve got that inkling of maybe there’s something a little bit off or someone who you think you really want to work with but when you try to work with them even before you’ve committed it’s not comfortable like we’re both cringing here right now because we know from our side it’s the same where yeah we want to help anyone who comes through our door but if that fit isn’t there that’s That’s just not going to be good.

Gabs: Yeah, it’s a no-go. And I think that also comes down to our due diligence as coaches and integrity to ask the question and say, I’d love to help you and we’re a great fit, but is now the right time? And I think there is probably an element of that as well. Ultimately it’s the coachee’s decision, but there is an element there where I would really hesitate and be really checking in on the time and space and one of the things I ask people in my discovery calls is why now? Why now? Why are we jumping into this? And how ready are you? Which comes back to the priority prioritizing and the amount of time and energy that you have to devote to this and I think sometimes it’s more than people expect it’s not reams of homework in writing essays or anything like that but it is reflection right we’ve discussed a particular action that you could take by next week I want you to try that out and part of next week’s session is you reporting back to me on how that went there is accountability and action involved it’s it’s not a cup of tea and sympathy you know it is action orientated because My goal is the transformation that you want. My goal is the change that you want. I want things to be different, feel different, look different, think different. There needs to be some kind of change. It should be noticeable to you and the people around you if we’re doing it right. So we can’t get there if you do nothing or worse, do the bare minimum. I think sometimes that’s worse than people that do nothing. Thankfully, I haven’t actually experienced that yet, so I must filter people in and out decently. But I’m very upfront, especially on my Signature 101 program. We’re going to be working together for four months. Buckle up, settle in, because I’m along with you and I’m doing just as much work as you are to guide that journey. Again, I don’t know about you, Julianne, but this is why I limit the amount of one-on-ones I have at a period of time because I’m thinking about my clients a lot. Constantly. I just want to stress, in a non-creepy way, I’m thinking about my clients a lot. If I come across an article, I think, oh, that’s perfect for client X. If I see a job role, I think, oh, that’d be really interesting data for client W. I am you know, checking in, it is a lot of our energy, but also my care and my commitment and my dedication as well, that I can’t spread that too thin because the quality will drop. And, you know, I do pride myself on the quality being high. There’s all of those things to consider and I think all of them play a part in that 10 out of 10 magical seasoning.

Gabs: Yeah, magical seasoning in a discovery call.

Gabs: And I would also say, if this is all new to anyone listening and you haven’t experienced the 10 out of 10 feeling yet, you will know it when you have it. And the way I would describe it, and I’d love to hear your version, Julianna, The way I would describe it is people get a mixture of excitement and they’re almost, I’ve had some people almost laugh out loud with how excited they feel to get going. It’s almost that, can we, I’ve had people say, can we not just do the first session now? You know, off the back of that, like you’re itching to get started. You want to jump in with both feet. You’ve got no hesitations. And then I also have sometimes the cause We get to the end and people say, you know, that was only 30 minutes, but I feel so much better already. I feel reassured already. I’ve had people get a little bit tearful saying, I feel really understood just from that initial 30 minutes. So it’s a yes. What, you know, what are the next steps? Let’s get the contract signed. Let’s get the PO sorted. I want to get going. It can be that real blend of excitement, but also kind of relief like, Oh, someone gets it. I feel like you understand me. And from my, that’s how it is for clients. And then from my side, I get goosebumps. It’s so weird, but every time I get goosebumps and I’m, and, and that’s the little like, Oh yeah, that’s a 10 out of 10 for me. And then I’m excited to get started too. How does it show up for you, Julie? I love that 10 out of 10. What’s it feel like?

Julianna: I think the excitement is definitely the common denominator, right? Because if you can’t get excited about the work, it’s not a 10 out of 10. So that immediate feeling of maybe a little bit of hope, a little bit of excitement, and for the type of person I typically work with, okay, let’s get started. How do we do this? Maybe not necessarily let’s have the first meeting right away, but let’s get this train chugging. What do we need to do to make this happen? I think if you’re not thinking in those terms, you probably have some sort of hesitation either about the coach or the process or your own readiness that that it’s not going to happen. I know fairly quickly when I’m talking to someone, if they’re ready, because of the way they’re answering me, whether it’s through messaging or we’re on a call, it’s very apparent for me that they’re not ready, that they’re exploring, they’re trying to understand what this coaching thing is all about, what is it that they can help them with. But they don’t, to my point earlier, if they don’t know what it is that they need, That’s going to be really hard for us as coaches to match up to say, hey, I’m hearing that this is what you need. This is either what exactly I can do for you, or here’s another coach who might be more suited for your situation.

Gabs: Yeah. Great. That’s helpful for people listening. What does it feel like, you know, to have that map, I think is helpful. Yeah.

Julianna: Yeah, well, this was such a fun conversation, very different than our usual one. So I hope anyone out there who’s looking for a coach or considering one, this has been helpful in kind of thinking through and imagining what it might be, imagining whether you are ready for that step right now, because as we talked about, not always the right time. And I guess Gabs, any final thoughts or one key thing that you’d love people to take away from all of this if they were just to take away one thing?

Gabs: I would say that clarity and that due diligence that we’ve talked about is really key and know from our side when you’re doing your homework on your coach We have spent hours, if not weeks, if not months, writing a copy that is on our LinkedIn profiles, on our website, you know to describe ourselves and how we do what we do. There is so much work that goes into trying to articulate that. I would say take it seriously, that we do what we do, we’ve designed the programs or services that we have for a reason and we’re confident enough to put it out to market on the internet and boldly say, this is what I do and this is how I do it and this is who I do it for. And we are able to do that because we’re confident in it. And so I would really use that information for your due diligence to do your homework to get started. Let’s come together and move away from this, well a coach is a coach is a coach. We all have different flavors that make us that quite unique combination and use that to make your choices. I’m going to sneak in a tiny one. I would just say book a discovery call when in doubt because that’s what they’re for. They are no obligation. It’s 30 minutes of your time. It’s worth doing and shopping around, but utilize them. That’s what they’re there for. They’re no commitment. It’s nothing scary, but you won’t really know until you have a chat with someone. So yeah, that would be my parting thoughts. Sorry to speak in a second one, but I had to.

Julianna: Yeah, and maybe I’ll leave things off with a similar thought, which is I guess going back to sort of the overarching point we’ve been making with it, there are so many different coaches out there and it really is up to you to find the right one that will meet your needs. And if it’s not the right match, just don’t. Just don’t. Keep searching, don’t give up, just keep searching. And honestly, if you’re working with someone who’s trying to do a hard sell, who’s trying to say that they can help you no matter what, maybe a little bit of a warning sign because most of us know who we can help the best and are in it for the transformation, the result that you’re going to get, not necessarily just getting your dollars or sterlings or whatever. For us, this is not, obviously it is about the money at a certain point, but it’s about more than that. Where if we aren’t confident that we can help you, we’d much rather see you serviced by somebody who can, and if it’s not the right time we’d much rather you wait it out than jump into something that isn’t going to get you the result you want. Perfectly said. Agree wholeheartedly. All right so we will wrap things up there and obviously check the show notes for how to get in touch with either of us or both of us. If you have more questions about looking for a coach or if you want to chat to us about coaching Again, if we don’t think you’re a great fit for us or vice versa, we both have extensive networks and are happy to put you in touch with somebody who can get you where you want to be. So we’re not scary people. Just reach out.

Gabs: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Julianna.

Julianna: Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. It’s a lot of fun. Okay, well thanks for listening everyone and hanging in to the very end and we will see you next time. See you next time.