Before You Quit: How to Tell If It’s the Job—or Just Your Perspective

Episode Transcript

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

Welcome to the Uncommon Career, or Daring to Succeed podcast, wherever you’re joining us from. This time, Patricia and I have a really, really juicy topic for you that we are so excited to get into.

And I think a lot of you will have experienced this yourself. It’s when you’ve been… So unhappy at your job.

You finally got that job that you’ve been trying to get. You’re over the moon, loving everything. Your boss is perfect.

Your co-workers are a dream. And then wham! All of a sudden you’re back where you started. And just everything doesn’t seem to be good anymore.

And what do you do? So we’ve both had a lot of people come to us with this type of situation.

And right away they’re like, I need my resume in shape again. Where should I be looking? Networking, networking, networking.

Because their immediate thought is, let’s put me back into a situation where the environment is suitable for me to thrive and to show off how amazing I am and to do great work for this company.

But I think Patricia and I wanted to pull things back a little bit on that and kind of explore a little bit on what if you

Patricia Ortega:

Yeah. What if you were to stay? It’s an interesting question, right? And you’re probably like, wait a second, wait a second.

If I don’t like my position, why are we entertaining the idea of staying? And part of it is, first, let’s make sure that this is the right move, that this is the right choice.

And if you loved your job at first, if you took that position for a reason, there was something good there.

And, you know, Julianna and I were talking about kind of in terms of a relationship, right? If you fell in love with someone and you’re at the brink of, you know, kind of calling it quits, it’s kind of like, okay, let’s remember, why did I fall in love with this person in the first place?

And is there enough there, right? Is it just the situation’s negative or is it the entire relationship that’s got to go?

And you want to ask the same question here. And so one of the first things that we talked about was just really quickly going through that job search, right?

What was missed in the job search? Did we see some red flags? Was there some? Major Value, Misalignments, right?

Are there any thoughts that you have, Julianna, as far as what are some things people can think about in the job search in hopes to avoid the situation altogether?

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I always start with making sure that you’re actually going after a job that you really want, not just to get out of the situation you’re in, because that’s a recipe for a disaster is just going after something else.

So that’s really important, is to really stay focused on what you want instead of what you’re trying to get away from.

And if you have done that already, you were patient, you diligently made sure that the job that you looked for was the one that would serve your career, would give you fulfillment, then it’s a question of between day one and where you’re at all over again, considering leaving.

Which? Which? Like, was there an actual event that changed? Did you get a new manager? Did the scope of your work change?

Like, was there something that happened that everyone can agree this thing happened that caused a real shift to what that work looks like for you?

Patricia Ortega:

Oh, this is great. It’s kind of figuring out what’s your anchor or even what’s the trigger, right? What is either the anchor, what’s the thing that’s pulling you down, or what’s the trigger, the event that took place?

And coming to really concrete terms, because you’re so right, Julianna, I often talk with clients, and I’m sure you do as well, where you’re like, so tell me a little bit about the issue.

And it’s not quite clear. And that’s completely normal, because you do need to talk through that to find out exactly, exactly what changed either perspective or environment or, you know, the actual experience.

And I love that you mentioned, you know, being clear about what happened during the job search. about Right. And while that technically can be a whole other whole other jam packed episode, you know, it’s so important to get clear on, you know, what are my values?

What do I want out of this position? And oftentimes we may not be super clear about it, but you know, even if you haven’t talked with the coach, you may not be super clear, but you know, if you were like, I don’t know if I want to take this position.

And then you kind of do because you’re like, well, you know, I don’t want to be job searching for another several months.

I don’t want to this. don’t want that. Right. And I totally get it. You need a paycheck, right? Like that’s often very important.

But now that you’re here, this position was good enough for you to take it, or maybe it was great enough.

Maybe you were excited to begin with. And so now, like you said, Juliana, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days in, you’re like, this is not what I want.

One of the things that we talked about was figuring out, you know, first off, you mentioned, you know, in our conversation earlier, Juliana, is, know, in our conversation.

got You’re If you have been getting interviews, you’ve got this position, you’ve gotten multiple positions before, you know that it’s not an issue of I’m not competitive and therefore I had to take a bottom of the barrel position, right?

So if you know that’s not an issue, we then jump into environment, perception, right? Past experience. Kick us off on that, Julianna.

What are your thoughts on those three or any other pieces that could be kind of contributing to how we feel now 30, 60, 90 days in?

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

Yeah, I mean, environment is kind of, I think, the thing that everybody jumps to first, right? It’s my boss, my co-workers, the project, the thing that I need to do, or their expectations, all these external factors that may or may not have changed.

Maybe they did actually for real change. Maybe it was always there, but in your excitement, you kind of glossed over it and thought, okay, well, maybe I’m seeing.

So there’s maybe a moment for you to kind of sit down and reflect on when I’m talking about all these things, these external factors in my environment that are causing the dissatisfaction in your work, I’ll say.

Okay. Is that something that everybody can agree is happening? Because that’s a really tricky one. And I’ll use myself as an example.

When Patricia and I were kind of playing with this topic a little before we hit record, I was talking about how this happened to me.

I was in my dream job. I had all the authority I wanted. you know, was being asked to do all these things that I felt were more senior.

And I felt like I was moving ahead in my career. And then a reorg happened. And I’m like, they’re punishing me.

I can’t believe they’re doing this. And blah, blah, blah, the list goes. I on about all the complaints I had, which in my mind were completely valid.

But I’m sure if you asked somebody else in that company, they wouldn’t have seen it the same way.

Patricia Ortega:

And you know, the thing that’s I think important to remember there is, as you’re having this experience, the perspective, the glasses that you put on, right, will actually change what the environment looks like.

And so for one person, this could be such a great opportunity, and sometimes it’s a very real thing. So for example, a fast-paced, quickly changing environment could be a great opportunity for a new professional who’s looking to learn a lot and have a lot to put on their resume, and they’re ready to go, they’re excited, right?

But for someone who’s more highly seasoned and who’s like, I have a craft, I have perfected my craft, and I want to be the subject matter expert or the leader, right, in strategy and not in, you know, a ton of action and a ton of change, the same experience could look…

Really good to one person and not so great to another. And so part of that is, is this perception you have of the environment due to a season that you’re in that you legitimately need to change?

like, this is just not a good fit. Or could it be that just a simple change in perspective could actually help you in the very season you’re at right now, love and enjoy and thrive and see this as not only an opportunity, but also a really good experience where you can build new skills and become more marketable for this quickly changing market, right?

So perception and expectations can change everything. I could tell you, hey, tomorrow I’m going to give you $1,000. And tomorrow, if I give you $800, you’re going to be like, what happened to my $200?

But if I don’t tell you anything today and tomorrow I give you $1,000, you’re going to be like, awesome, right?

I could give you $100 and you could be like, awesome, because you didn’t expect it. So that’s the first question to ask.

That is what are some expectations you had of the position and, you know, what expectations weren’t met? And then you can kind of sift and say, okay, is this something where a change of perspective would be helpful or is this something where even with the change of perspective, the fact of the matter is I cannot work in this particular environment, right?

So what are your thoughts on that whole piece of perception and expectations?

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

I think you’ve got it totally spot on because when I, again, think of myself in the past, if I was coaching myself, like if my current self is coaching past me, I would be challenging myself to see if I could see that situation in a different perspective because, you know, reflection and growth and everything and having the distance of time to look at the situation, I’ve come to the conclusion that I was simply not looking at my situation in a helpful way.

Doesn’t matter if it was right or wrong or whatever, but the thoughts I had about my situation weren’t helpful in me progressing in my career, or even just, like, enjoying my career at that time.

And if I had thought about it differently, maybe it would have been different. But, like, bringing it back to the present, if you’re in a situation where, like Patricia said, you are so happy about this new job, and then something happened, are the thoughts that you’re having about what that job means to you right now, are they helping you?

Are they actually serving you to reach your goals of whatever it may be, more recognition, more progression, more challenges, or just being happier day to day, right?

Is what you’re thinking about that helping you get to that result that you…

Patricia Ortega:

Oh, this is, I just love everything you shared here. I’m going to kind of recap a little bit because I’m like, man, this is really good.

What you’re talking about is sort of self-coaching, right? You talked about time distance, right? Try to, if you’re here with us, you’re having your coffee, you’re having your tea, we’re all at the table here chatting, and you’re in this situation, I would really encourage you to grab that cup of coffee, grab that tea, and spend some time reflecting on the situation, but distancing yourself from that moment.

So even though you may not have that time distance that Julianna had had, and I know that I’ve had in my positions where I haven’t been so happy, imagine that it’s 10 years from now.

Create distance between you. And I always say, you you kind of pull it outside of you and then you objectify it.

You like look at it from different angles, right? And that time distance helps. And also another activity that’s really helpful is what Julianna mentioned is, you know, coach yourself.

Like if I were to be like, Literally tell yourself, I am a wise leader coaching a person in this situation, right?

What would the wise leader tell them? And that’ll help you to distance yourself from that function, then also distance yourself in terms of time, provide a little bit of that, you know, reflection piece.

It’s just, it’s going to be really helpful to figure out, is this something that is a perspective issue or is it not?

And don’t get me wrong, it’s really hard, even if we do, you know, analyze it in that way, it’s still really hard, even as a coach.

I have a coach, I know Julianna has coaches, right? It’s really hard to do this on your own when you are literally in the eye of the storm.

It’s hard to see from the outside how big the tornado is when the world’s just kind of swirling around you.

And so this is where that coaching comes in. And this is where those conversations help to create that time distance and help you see from a third person perspective and then decide and discern what the best course of action

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

Yeah, it’s so true, because it is hard to look at ourselves and our situation objectively, because, like you said, you’re in the eye of the storm, and everything’s happening, both internally and externally, and it’s just, I think part of it is why coaches exist in the first place, but like Patricia said, you still have tools.

If you’re not ready for coaching, if that’s not something you want to do right now, you can still create that distance for yourself, right?

You can still kind of sit down, and like Patricia said, pretend you’re having a conversation with yourself. What would you advise yourself if you were, let’s say, talking to a friend?

Patricia Ortega:

Yeah, yeah. How do you recreate a space, right, with two voices? And remember, there’s voices all around you, so you can find a trusted friend, a trusted mentor, someone in that space.

Now, if we were to switch gears, Julianna, from kind of why did this happen or how did I get here to, okay, what do I do now?

One of the things that I know we talked about was, you know, and I’ll cover this very briefly because I think this is more surface level and we’ll get to a little bit of the deeper stuff, but just surface level, the question always comes up.

And I actually just got that question from a client literally yesterday. They messaged me and they were like, okay, it didn’t work out.

I decided to put in my two-week notice, but it’s only a three-month engagement. Should I put this position on my resume?

And this person had gone from a highly corporate environment and I believe also a startup environment into a nonprofit environment.

It was great. It was just great all around for multiple reasons. They were more seasoned. They wanted to give back and contribute.

It was just such a good fit. But then personality-wise, things didn’t end up working out. There was like some other things that happened.

And so, so it’s like, should I put this on here? And here’s one thing that’s really important. I get this all the time.

How you feel about this departure is not going on the resume. And so step outside of that and consider how would this look on the resume, not how do I feel about it?

Because sometimes we don’t feel great about it and so we don’t want to put it on the resume. But really what this is is a bridge position.

It’s a position. Now your story is, hey, I worked in this field for 20 years. I wanted to make a pivot.

I got some experience in this position and I’m on the hunt for that perfect role. And now I’m really clear about what I want.

And you happen to be exactly what I want. Right? So just kind of reframe the story to pull any emotion out of it from those spaces that you maybe aren’t as excited about.

And that should help to answer kind of like at least that surface level question. There’s more to that, but that’s the gist of it.

But other than that, what do we do if we’re like, huh, I don’t really like where I’m at. It’s not the end of the world, but how do I keep going and how do I enjoy it?

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

Yeah, it’s a really good question and I think it’s one that so many people are grappling with because you’re kind of facing this decision of, like you said, we need a paycheck, we need that income, unhappy right now with the current job, and there’s always that lure of the grass is greener on the other side.

And is it or is it not? So I’d say one thing to start with is just really challenging yourself to look at the job to see, is it uncomfortable because the honeymoon period is over?

Right, and now it’s down to work and it’s often the same challenges at every workplace. Or is there something actually?

Actually, truly wrong, right? Is there a boss who’s actually like gaslighting you or bullying you? Is there a coworker who is actively maliciously trying to sabotage your career?

Like, is there something real there that is the true HR concern that you need to pay attention to and take care of yourself?

Or is it just that, to something that you mentioned earlier, Patricia, is it your expectations of that role and what it’s become after, you know, the initial onboarding period of that distance between the expectation and the reality?

Is that just a little bit too far apart for you? And is it still somewhere that you want to be and draw those two back together where expectation and reality are a little bit closer?

Patricia Ortega:

Yes. don’t landing and more comfortable. Oh, that’s so good. You know, you and I talked about what’s the gap, right?

Figuring out, getting really clear. And, you know, one of the things that I’ve learned both with myself, with clients, just about human behavior, is that typically the first problem that comes up when we ask, what’s the challenge?

What’s the problem? It’s not typically the actual problem. So you always want to dig a little bit deeper. So if you have a response to any part of our conversation, you’re like, ah, this is it.

I would say, great. Write it down. And then ask, what’s below that, right? What’s under that? And there’s usually a deeper response, a deeper level to things to really, truly figure out and pinpoint what is the core of the problem?

What’s the hinge on which things went from good to not so good? And there’s usually, like you said, a gap, not usually, but depending if this is a perception issue, then there would be a gap between perception and expectation experience, right?

So what is that gap? And can you fill that gap? Is it within your control? to fill that gap.

Because sometimes it’s not in your control. You can’t change how a manager, you know, acts and reacts at meetings and responds.

But you can change, you know, if this isn’t out of line, like you said, an HR issue, right? You can change how you perceive this manager’s personality.

For example, you might say, you know, there wasn’t conflict in the interview, so I did not see their personality style.

And now our personality styles conflict. That is a gap that you potentially can fill. And the beauty of it is that you can fill this with personal growth.

You can fill this by saying, okay, what if I were the person who literally in my next interview for my next position can say, I can turn any situation into a positive one.

I can work with any type of personality. Like that is a skill. It’s an EQ skill. They call it power skills.

That is untrainable. It is not a skill. Now, typically, a manager can say, hey, I’m going It’s pay you more if you’re just a better, you know, communicator, right?

It’s not typically something that is easily trained. And so it’s going to be so, so valuable. So is there a gap?

And can you, by filling that gap, not only improve your experience, but also improve yourself as a person, and then also improve your competitiveness for a future role?

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

I love everything you said there, because sometimes when I talk to people about these interpersonal challenges, and again, I’ve been there myself, it’s always, not always, but there’s often a reaction of, why should I change?

Right? They’re the boss, they should be better, blah, blah, blah, all the excuses. And again, that was me, right?

I think of one particularly, say, demanding boss that I had, who was very particular in the way they needed.

And their staff to, to behave with them, to interact with them. I’m like, so much work. Why can’t you just be okay with the way I do things?

But it kind of, it’s right way after all. of course, it’s my way. But then I kind of talked myself out of it and said, look, you don’t need to change the way you’re doing everything.

You just need to adapt what you’re doing to what they’re asking you to do, how they prefer it to be done.

You don’t need to admit that it is a better way or anything. It’s just, is it easier for you to meet them halfway on this, so that you can move past this little sticky point that is obviously so important for them, to get to a place where you can collaborate better?

Or do you want to just keep saying that? They’re stupid and that they’re demanding and all of those things, right?

And going back to what you said about the personal growth, it’s can you learn a different skill set that maybe you never use again?

Or maybe one day down the line, you come across another person who’s like this and you’re like, I know exactly how to handle this situation because I’ve already done it before, right?

And so it’s, again, perception. Can you look at it in terms of learning a new skill, learning a different way of doing things, and for it to be okay if you don’t agree with that way of working?

Patricia Ortega:

Yeah, yeah. I feel like overall, if we were to take this and kind of put it into, you know how sometimes you want, what is it, TLDR?

Too long, didn’t read, right? If you want to put it into sort of a TLDR, right, I feel like what we’re getting at is…

So before you add all this work into your process, consider if there might be an opportunity. Sometimes it’s this fantastic opportunity and it’s just veiled in a different color than we expected it.

And so first discern, you know, how important is this, right? Is it something that black and white, I cannot continue in this space because it’s either an abusive space or, you know, it’s maybe they’re forcing everyone to go in person.

It turns out that you are not in a commutable distance and they knew that, right? Those are non-negotiable things that can’t change.

But if that’s not your situation and you’re in a situation where you’re like, I think this might be perception, that’s such a beautiful thing because this means that something that seemed to be a challenge at the beginning of our episode is actually now an opportunity for growth, a way that you’re going to become more competitive and a way that you can develop as a person as well.

So I think ultimately, it’s what situation are we in? Is it the environment or is it perception, expectation? creators, expectation and euphoria

And then it’s figuring out, okay, what do I do? Do I need to start making moves and figure out strategy to get into the job search?

Or do I need to, either on my own or with a coach, work on very specific communication skills? You would be surprised how many times myself and my clients, Julianna and her clients as well, how many times a person can feel stuck in a box of our own making and having these conversations and figuring out the door, I guess you could say, right?

And sometimes I had a client and this might resonate. I don’t know if it will, but I know it resonated with me when she said it.

But I was like, what was your experience of coaching? I remember asking her that. And she goes, I never forget this.

She goes, I feel like I opened my eyes in coaching and I saw that I was in a cage of my own making.

And she’s like, and worse, the door has been open for years and I just haven’t walked out. It’s like, oh, like I got chills.

remember thinking that is so powerful because it’s true in the eye of the storm or in our box of our own making, right?

It’s hard to see past that. So get into those coaching conversations. You can chat with Juliana. You can chat with myself.

We’ll open up a conversation because you’d be surprised how something that can be a challenge can turn into an opportunity.

So that’s how I would summarize it.

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

Juliana, about you? Do you have any final thoughts before we kind of wrap up this coffee sesh? Yeah, I’m going to take what you just said and kind of just give everyone a little glimmer of hope because as heartbreaking as it is to think that we’re in a box and a cage of our own making, whether the door is open or not, let’s just say it’s like completely closed.

If you created that cage, you can disassemble that cage. You can get out of that cage if you built it for yourself.

Patricia Ortega:

Mm-hmm. You know, there is something, I’m like, there is something about that, that it, one time I was talking to a counselor because we have coaches, but we also have counselors because we’re human and we’re complex and we need to sift through things, right?

Well, one of the things that a counselor once told me was, it took you 40 years, we’re going to say 21, okay?

I’m 21 years old. It took you 40 years to cultivate certain habits that you didn’t even realize you needed to work on.

And so give yourself compassion and grace if it takes more than two weeks to disassemble a box that you created over 40 years, right?

And so it kind of makes me think the same thing. Behavior change takes time. Change in perception takes time.

And so it’ll take time. But in the same vein, what I got out of it for this conversation is, if you, like you said, Juliana, if you assembled it, you can disassemble it.

And that’s so, so powerful. That’s so powerful. You know. I just thank you so much, if you’re here with us, for having a cup of coffee, having a cup of tea with us, breaking down this conversation.

I know these moments can sometimes feel, whether it’s vulnerable or challenging, because we’re always ones that are going to challenge you to take that step and, you know, find that place where you’re thriving, where you’re also growing, where you’re, you know, getting into maybe some uncomfortable spaces for all good reason.

And so thank you so much for joining us today. I’m so excited that you’re with us. Reach out to either Juliana or myself with the links in the description.

Julianna Yau Yorgan:

And until the next one, we’ll see you soon. See you on the next one.