Strategic Visibility: Candace Dudley on Podcast Guesting Without Burnout

ulianna: Hello and welcome to the Daring to Succeed podcast. I’m your host, Julianna Yau Yorgan, and I’m joined today by Candace Dudley, a podcast guesting strategist and host of the Better Brave podcast. With over 180 episodes produced and over 30 guest appearances in the past year alone, she helps busy entrepreneurs grow their visibility and impact through intentional podcast guesting. Candace is passionate about making guesting the go-to networking and marketing tool for entrepreneurs who want big results without burnout. Welcome to the podcast, Candace.

Candace: Hey, thanks for having me. I’m super excited to dive into all this today.

Julianna: Me too. And I’m so excited because you are our very first guest to start talking about more entrepreneurial topics. So this is very exciting for me.

Candace: Yes.

Julianna: Yeah, so we’ll dive right into it. And can you talk a little bit about why you think guesting on podcasts is underutilized for entrepreneurs and small business owners?

Candace: Yes, I think if you don’t have a podcast, you’re not in the podcasting world, it’s really not on your radar. And also, if you do have a podcast, it can be consuming and you don’t really think about the flip side of that coin. But what it can really allow you to do is get in front of some great audiences who are already a very warm, market, and you do that by making sure you’ve done your homework and checking for alignment with the show and the host and making sure that there’s something that matches between the two of you. You don’t have to have everything that matches, but some type of common value, common mission, something that connects you. That’s going to be a really big bang for your buck, but I think it’s just something that’s not on a lot of our radars and it’s not something that, you know, is very common or thought of as a strategy.

Julianna: Yeah and you’ve shared so much in that statement already. I want to pick it apart a little bit. You said something about not having your own podcast and I know starting your own podcast is very alluring to a lot of people but having gone through it myself and I know you have your own podcast it is It is a commitment and it’s quite a bit of a learning curve even compared to like starting a blog or getting onto a social platform. So in that regard, do you find that not having your own podcast and just purely guesting, are those results kind of the same? Is the experience the same? Talk to us a little bit about that.

Candace: Right. I think one is you don’t have to have your own podcast to guest. So that’s another hang up I see is, well, it’d have to be a guest, like a swapping type deal. But swaps don’t always actually work because your message might fit for my podcast, but mine might not align with yours. Sometimes it might, but it might be different you know, pieces that it’s not really going to hit. And in that case, a swap doesn’t make sense because then it’s more of a waste of time for your audiences. It’s probably going to kill the trust that you’ve built as a host with your audience to bring people on that don’t really fit what they’re expecting or hoping to get from you. Going back to your question about the guesting, can you restate that for me?

Julianna: It’s early morning, I’m like, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, for sure. It’s more about, I’m just curious, like, do you find your clients get the benefits from guesting even without their own podcast? Because like I said, we both know it’s a lot of work to start up your own podcast. Not a lot of them last beyond the first few episodes.

Candace: Exactly. Do not start a podcast unless you have a pretty strong intention and goal and use for it. But yeah, I do find that people still get great results. if you do it right. There’s a lot of ick out there. You probably get cold pitches a lot where it’s even like a company pitching someone else and you can just tell that they haven’t listened to the show. They haven’t checked to see, you know, maybe your show is just for women entrepreneurs and it’s a male being pitched and it’s not in entrepreneurship. It’s just like it doesn’t hit and it doesn’t work. So if you’ve done that homework and you have really a thought about what kind of value you’re going to bring to that show. That’s really all we care about as a host. Are you going to give our audience some type of value, some type of actionable thing that they can do, they can run with and do on their own? That’s what we want, right? As a host, we want to feel good about that and bringing that to our audience. So if you lead with that, and you think about that, and have some intentional action behind it, guesting, even without having your own podcast, can be It can be very strategic and work really well for your business.

Julianna: Yeah and as a host of a podcast I can definitely echo that. There are a lot of pitches that they just don’t quite hit the mark and you can tell. Like you don’t have to listen to every single episode but enough like even if you’re just fast-forwarding through a couple just to get a sense of what the host generally talks about and things like that. I got a huge onslaught of AI-related pitches where I’m like, if you paid attention enough you know that that’s not a big deal for me or for my audience. And I think Sometimes people overthink the pitch as well. Yes. Like you’re nodding a lot. I’m sure you’ve seen the ones where they’re like, oh, I really love this episode that you talked about all these things. I’m like, just get to what you want to bring to the show. Yes.

Candace: That’s what we care about. Well, I do want to know that you’ve listened. So somehow tell me why we’re connected. What piece of, you know, what makes you want to reach out to me? But that should be like, give me a sentence or two on that and then get into it. I want to know. But I do always suggest to my clients when I’m helping them with this, send a DM if you can. there’s just too much, you know, you’ve got as hosts, we get too many emails and they’re usually bad pitches. So there’s just this, I think, stigma with the emails, where hosts are just kind of burnt out with them. And they’re really just getting tossed into the junk folder. So if you can it’s usually easier actually to find the host’s Instagram or a place you can DM them. Anyway, send a DM, send a quick voice message because who’s one not curious enough to open up a voice message to think, who’s sending me this? What are they saying? And two, that helps your vibe, your intention, your personality kind of shine through a little bit in a voice note versus a text. and the host can really take a look quick and say see if they want to talk further see if they want to just say yes right away maybe that’s a thing too but the other thing I say to put in there that helps a host say yes right away is come up with and I I help people do this but come up with three topics, speaking topics, and have them be really clear. Have them be niched down, if you will, and very specific. And also if it can highlight how you’re different. So how I’m different is I host, I’ve hosted for four years and interviewed people, but then I’ve also just been taking guessing myself super seriously. So I’ve done a lot of both. And so I can speak to both pieces where there are people out there coaching people with podcasts who don’t even have a podcast. So I think that’s kind of different that you have it. So you figure out what that little thing is different about you, work it into speaking topics, and if you can word your speaking topics as titles of episodes, that makes it super easy for a host to say, yes, that fits my audience. Yes, that that will work. I don’t have I haven’t had anyone on to talk about that. So it’s like if you’ve done the work a little bit for us, you know, given us a title. If it can be SEO involved, that’s great. So if you do that, it makes it a lot easier for a host to see the value in what you might be talking about.

Julianna: Yeah, I mean, sort of just to summarize it, I would say that basically you’re looking to give the host value because as much as we love having guests and the guest episodes are fun because talking to yourself can get a little dry after a while, it does need to fit with the vibe of the show. I kind of think of it as the same as a traditional talk show where those talk shows are going to have specific types of people on as their guests because it’s the purpose of the show, it’s what the audience wants. I’m curious as well, have you worked with any clients who are a little bit anxious or nervous about talking on a podcast? You’re smiling and nodding. I’ll take that as a yes.

Candace: Yes this summer I have a few guest episodes coming out that are like live coaching episodes and we just talked about this it was last week so it’s fresh in my mind and she said her question was the same thing you just asked like I’m nervous to speak I don’t public speak. First of all this is way different than public speaking so I think that’s another hang-up is we think it’s the exact same thing. And it’s completely not, because I also don’t love to get up on a stage. I’m very introverted. It’s a draining experience. I feel proud after well, so I feel like I need like three days of nothing. So I know my friends that love it and they’re energized after it. I’m not. So podcast guessing can be a really great thing to utilize and you don’t have to think about it as public speaking. It’s such a more controlled setting. You can control your environment. We’re here at the crack of dawn and doing it when it works for us and we’re just using audio so we can show up in our PJs. There’s this piece of it that is way different and it allows you to have a lot more control over the environment and how that looks for you. You can also schedule those things at a time that fits your life and fits your energy and your schedule. It’s way different than than speaking on a stage, but practicing it can be really helpful. Things that are usually always asked is a little intro about yourself. So practicing that, you know, early on years ago when I dabbled in a couple guesting spots, I had a host cut me off. you know. So you learn from your mistakes. Yeah because I was trying to tell my whole life story in the intro. Yep, yes I was. I’m like, I don’t know this all seems important so just blah blah blah. And luckily she did just kind of, oh let’s drain it in you know. Hold on. But you learn from those things and if you can come at it from a non-judgmental space and just say, hmm, what can I do better next time? What small thing? You know, you’re going to get better. We want to walk into every arena and just be an expert or not feel like a beginner, but the truth is we can’t get to that unless we’ve allowed ourselves to be a beginner. So the same goes with podcast guesting, but practicing your introduction, keep it really short. It’s basically, who are you? Who do you help? You know, that’s it. And then keep it really short and the host can then ask you, follow up questions if they want to dive deeper into different parts of your story. But keep it really short and sweet because the main thing that you’re on the show for is to provide that value because that is the place where you are going to be highlighted as the authority, as the you know the confident person speaking about this as the expert in this area and so that’s the part that you want to get to and if you have a short podcast like mine is 20 to 30 minutes and you talked for five to seven minutes about your intro you just cut a really big chunk of that episode and didn’t really allow for that so That is one thing for sure. And then going back to having those speaking points, if you know the value that you’re going to drop there, another thing to think about when coming up with those is what kind of offers do you have already? A lot of us already have a free resource, a downloadable to grab emails and then an offer or a dream client signing type thing. Take a look at that. There’s speaking topics in there because those are the things that you are great at and passionate about. And so having alignment with your speaking topics, matching that, like we’re doing right now, all my offers are about podcast guesting, so it becomes very easy to weave that into the conversation naturally instead of feeling like we are, you know, sometimes posting on social media and a call to action and all that stuff can feel icky or like, oh, I’m just sales pitching all the time. But if you know that you’re going to be dropping value and things that that audience can just take and run with, how great is that? If there are people, though, that don’t want to DIY things and they don’t want to do it on their own, then you definitely are doing a disservice if you don’t mention that you also have services that help with this because there are people that want you. So having that cohesiveness, thinking about that with your speaking topics, matching the freebies and offers and things that you have will make your talk be so easy. So if you’re stuck on, well, what would I talk about? Think about if you had a guest tomorrow and you had no prep time and you couldn’t prepare anything. what would the thing that you would talk about be? Because that’s probably where you should lean in.

Julianna: Yeah and I think again it just all comes back to kind of knowing the host a little bit and listening to some of the episodes because I remember when I started guesting I probably listened to more than I needed to but it did help me prepare because then I’d be like okay this is the general flow of the conversation for this particular host. This is how much time they spend on the intro. There were some that Oh my goodness, they let their guests go on for almost 15 minutes going on about their backstory. I’m like… Okay I guess I need to have more than a two-minute intro for this particular guest because that’s the standard versus like you and I both have more snappy episodes that kind of dive right in and they’re shorter so knowing that format I think can also help with the jitters because then it’s like you’ve got this little template pre-made from the past episodes to know what to expect the conversation to be like.

Candace: Absolutely. That’s a really great point. I like to even spend time either the night before or the morning of doing that. Refreshing your memory with their episodes and things because even if you can kind of get a little feel for who their audience is, like we know, I know I’m coming on here and we’re dropping tips and actionable steps and we’re getting right to it and this is for people with businesses. So we’re really cutting the fluff, right? This isn’t a storytelling type episode. So when you know that, you can tweak how you talk. And it’s not a huge change, but if I’m getting on a podcast and I know that all the listeners are moms, well, I’m going to use different words. I’m going to say mom instead of entrepreneur, or I’m going to say mompreneur. Those little tweaks that are very simple to make on the fly help that audience feel so much more connected to you. And it’s, again, just going to be a much more higher conversion or chances that people that are listening are going to come over into your neck of the woods.

Julianna: Yeah and and I find there’s some people I talk to as well who are really nervous about it like there’s some people I’m trying to get onto my podcast but they’re just like oh I don’t know so it’s so scary. But I’d say for if you’re thinking about guesting and you’re nervous about talking remember too that you make a stronger connection through speaking with somebody and through your audience hearing your actual voice, hearing you speak, than just in photos and in words, right? And there are a lot of people who are like, Oh my God, what if I say Amalad? And it’s like, well, it’s supposed to feel authentic. Like I’ve stopped editing my podcast episodes, except if there’s like a huge interruption, because otherwise it feels too overly produced and you lose that humanity in the conversation.

Candace: I agree. That’s a really great point. One, I tell my clients, if you’re listening to something where there’s no ums, there’s no filler words, it’s been edited. I don’t care if it’s a huge production company or a one-off podcast, it’s been edited. And also, It’s, if not been edited, then they, that person has got to have had a lot of reps put in. They’ve probably done a lot of speaking practice, years of it potentially. You haven’t. So I agree with you. I think the pendulum is swinging back and people don’t want the curated thing. We want to know that people are humans. We want to feel that. And I always say that your people are going to connect with you. There’s a reason they haven’t connected with someone else. They’re waiting for your voice and you’re totally right that you can build such a deeper connection so much faster than things like social media or an email through podcasting. It’s another reason I love it. And another thing you can do is if you are feeling really nervous ahead of time, you can email or message the host. It’s very appropriate to ask if they edit. ask if they edit because it’s a different vibe if you know like I gotta go straight through this and I cannot stop and say oh can I say that differently but it kind of can put you at ease because most of us we will edit some so if we did say full stop I gotta re-say that I don’t want to be like that we’d say no problem we’ll cut that out so having that you know in the back of your mind can be really helpful The other thing you can ask for is some just general questions if they haven’t sent them to you. Some don’t because they want it to be off the cuff and conversational, but they probably if you ask and you just say, hey, I just want to make sure I do a really great job. Is there any questions that I can just start thinking about? You know, can you send those over? we’re again we’re just a human being on the other side of this podcast right we’re all just people trying to make it you know riding that roller coaster of entrepreneurship and so I’m sure that they will send you those things and that can kind of help ease your mind if you can have a plan but I do think you just need to do whatever it takes for that first one to rip that band-aid off so if you need a script I have a script I don’t love that because I don’t want someone to think that you’re talking and reading what you’re saying because you can kind of hear that when that happens. But if you have a post-it note and you just make like maybe bullet your three main pieces of value that you know you don’t want to forget to say and mention and now you just feel comfortable and you know safe that you’re not going to just space on what you’re saying and not to write there you can just glance at it quick and you’re gonna go oh boom yes back on track so that’s another way to kind of prep without sounding like you’re reading something but feeling like I got a backup plan I’m gonna be okay.

Julianna: Yeah and I mean I just want to say that most hosts don’t want you to bum. They’re there to produce a good show. They want it to be a good show. They want the value that you have to bring. So unless it’s an extremely experienced or just outright mean host, they’ve got your back. They’ll be there to kind of guide the conversation and make sure that if you trip a little bit, you can get back on your feet.

Candace: Absolutely. We want you to sound good. We want to come off well. So nobody wants anybody to fail in this. No.

Julianna: And I guess speaking about all the connection, let’s talk a little bit about network building through guesting, because that was something I wasn’t expecting and really enjoyed when I started guesting and bringing guests on as well. Absolutely.

Candace: That can be such a big networking tool. Again, that we don’t think about, it’s super underutilized, but just think you get on with a host especially, and if you’ve already made sure there’s some alignment, you’re going to vibe, you’re going to have a great talk with them for 30 to 40, sometimes to an hour. When do you ever do that? And you get in a coffee shop and talk, you know, you’re going to chit chat about the weather and you’re going to move on. But you sit down with that host for like an hour and you deep dive it. You go, you go deep. And I love that as an introvert. I don’t like small talk. So to me, it’s like a dream. And that connection that you can make within that one recording is huge. So if you do vibe with the host and you do feel great about that conversation, stay in contact with them. You don’t know the ripple effects that are coming, the collaborations that are potentially coming next or, you know, new doors that are going to open or referrals that they might send you, which again is why you’re speaking topics to have them narrowed down are so important. If you get on and you try to talk about all five of your free resources and 15 different things, you are not going to come to the top of the mind of that host when someone comes to them, asks them about something, and they’re like, I don’t do that, but I know someone who does that. They’re not going to think of you. But if you got on and talked about one thing, they’re going to think of you. So it’s not to say you can’t have other offers, but one podcast episode is not big enough, long enough for anybody listening to take in that many different things. So you won’t be that person that they think of. Um, that’s why everything, you know, it’s like a big puzzle. So having all of those things kind of intentionally thought about, and they shouldn’t be things that take a lot of time or anything like that, but when they all kind of connect and work together, the networking can be huge. You know, again, that also, that host has built up trust with their audience. So if you get on their show, it’s like saying without saying to their audience, I have checked this person out for you. I vet them. You can trust them. go follow them, buy from them, whatever, because I’ve already done the homework and I wouldn’t bring someone on that I didn’t trust. That’s also why as a host, you cannot say yes to every single guest. You have to do your homework, too, because it’s not going to end well for you or them if you haven’t made sure that it’s a match in some way.

Julianna: Yeah and I can definitely vouch for the benefits of networking. I mean I’ve got so many people that I’ve kept in touch with afterwards and definitely the referrals are there both ways. I’ve got one guest that we originally did a podcast swap and now we have like a monthly co-hosted episode which is so much fun because Like we get to know each other, we still have our individual podcasts for topics that are unique to our specific audiences, but because there’s overlap because we’re both coaches, we get to have a little bit of fun talking about topics from different perspectives that impact both of our audiences. So there’s just so much opportunity there with like networking and expanding your horizons and getting those referrals.

Candace: If you think about what makes you hit purchase for somebody’s service or offer or course or whatever, if you’ve been referred to them by someone you already trust, that’s an easy buy. You know, you don’t pause and think, I don’t know. That’s a quicker purchase than anything else, I think. So yeah, I couldn’t say enough good things about it. Plus, I don’t want to go to a business cardi suit type networking event with hundreds of people. Not my thing. Sounds terrible. So sign me up for this instead.

Julianna: Yeah, absolutely. So if you’re still listening and want to dive into podcast guesting, Candace, what tips do you have for people who just are ready to rip off that band-aid?

Candace: go and post about it, but be specific. We all see these posts that say, I want to guest on 15 podcasts this year. I have a goal. What are you going to talk about? As a host, I’m scrolling right by. That’s also very like me focused instead of value and service focused. If you post though, and this has worked for me, I’ve done it on my own threads. I try to do it every week or so, but it Share those three speaking topics, list them, reword them next time if you didn’t get any hits for it. Just throw those out there and start saying, hey, this is a value I know that I could bring your audience. who has a show or a host that would fit one of these topics that I could come and just serve your audience this great value and actual tips that they could use. Keep that focus in mind and share those specific things because nobody, you can’t guest on a podcast if no one knows that you want to guest on a podcast. You never know if you have a friend who knows someone that you didn’t know, you know, that ripple effect is huge, but that’s a great way to just get started. The other thing you can do, especially on threads, is you can use their search bar and you can put in podcast threads, podcast guests, podcaster, those types of words. And I have found shows, hosts that are listing specific topics out. And if you match one of those, it’s very quick and easy to just write a comment. I always advise that you listen to the show before you would send a DM or some type of pitch. But in that case, if a host is listing off five specific topics and you fit two and three, you just get in there and comment or go message them and say, I saw your post. I really fit these two topics. If you’re still looking for someone to cover those, let me know. I’m open. And then you can go listen to their show after, do your homework. that’s just a really great place to start. And you know, we’ve talked about how to come up with those speaking topics and things of kind of looking at your offers and what you could just talk about immediately that you’d be so passionate about. So getting that out there is the first step. And if you want to do a more detailed, a little bit more time consuming, you can start listening to shows and then I say there’s kind of a breadcrumb trail. It seems hard right away because you type in search and Apple or Spotify and you’re just going to get big shows, big name shows. That’s not probably the ones that we’re trying to guess on, not for us at least. And so it can be kind of hard to find those small ones. But right now, if you’re listening to this, go look at the guest episodes or go hop over to my show because I’m a host. There’s probably other hosts that end up being guests on these smaller shows and so it’s almost like that breadcrumb trail where you can jump over to the ones that you are connecting with and check theirs out because I definitely have guests that have podcasts as well and then that kind of opens the gates for you and it’s kind of a ripple effect. That is a little more time-consuming. I do have a tracker and some things but I also do that for a service so if people want to like speed that process up I can go find that alignment for you and then then deliver that. But right away just post it, share those topics, see what happens.

Julianna: Yeah and I’ll definitely plus one the idea of going after smaller podcasts especially if you’re new to guesting. The larger ones have very specific requirements of like how many shows you’ve done, and some of them even dive into your business to make sure that you’re big enough business for them to bring on. So the smaller podcasts were friendlier too because we’re more about having the conversation. The big guys I find they do bring a lot of value of course but the quality of guests that they’re bringing on has a very different feel. It’s a little bit more corporate. than the smaller ones, and the small podcasts still have quite a large following.

Candace: Absolutely. Just think of even those smaller ones, if you have 50 listeners, if you were in a room with 50 devoted people that are choosing to be there intentionally listening and on board with your messaging, that would be pretty fantastic. That would be pretty amazing. So don’t discount that if it’s a smaller show, a newer show, they tend to have some of the strongest communities compared to those big ones.

Julianna: Absolutely. I guess, yeah, as we are about to wrap up, where can people find you if they want to learn more about guesting or if they’re interested in hiring you to help them find those perfect matches for a guest episode?

Candace: Sure, at my name, Candace Dudley, so on threads, Instagram, at Candace Dudley, and then my website is candacedudley.com. And then we can link my guesting starter guide for free in the comments or in the show notes. And you guys can go download that and that’ll have a few more tips and things to get you started.

Julianna: Yeah, absolutely. I’ll be sure to have all of those links and handles in the show notes for everyone. Thank you. Any last thoughts or comments before we wrap up?

Candace: You know, this has been great. I think we might be at the overwhelm point, but just again, I would love to reiterate, let yourself be a beginner. Try not to be too judgy. Yes, you can improve, but you got to do that first one to get the feel and see what can be improved and go from there.

Julianna: Great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Candace. And thanks to all the listeners. And we will see you next time. Thank you.